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| Install Begins | |
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| Topic Started: Sat 2 Jun 2007, 19:29:02 (398 Views) | |
| StuBeeDoo | Sat 2 Jun 2007, 19:29:02 Post #1 |
PE30 Senior Master Sergeant
  ![]](http://209.85.122.89/static/1/pip_r.png)
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I've started the LPG install on my Touring today. So for I've fitted the filler and the tank. No photo's yet, but I'll get some tomorrow. No major dramas so far. I was a bit scared of cutting the hole in the rear quarter though. Took about half an hour to do the filler (+ the time to remove all the trim and my amp install) and just over an hour for the tank. I didn't notice how much time unbolting and refitting the towbar took though. Tomorrow, I'll fit and secure the filler pipe and refit all the boot trim, then hopefully start fitting some of the stuff in the engine bay. |
 Grateful thanks to Cloud for the sigpic. 
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| loopylee | Sat 2 Jun 2007, 23:57:28 Post #2 |
PE30 Sergeant Major
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:worthleepics: sorry mate it had to be said :LOL: |
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| StuBeeDoo | Sun 3 Jun 2007, 19:24:09 Post #3 |
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PE30 Senior Master Sergeant
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Patience is a virtue Lee! :LOL: However.....  ^^^ The only external clue.  ^^^ The inside of the filler before the pipe was connected and the gas-tight boot was fitted (any fittings inside the car have to be gas-tight). The filler has to be braced because the gun is heavy and when attached can bend the panel and pull the filler out(!!). So I fitted it right up against the petrol flap lock solenoid bracket, as you can see.  ^^^ The tank in place. This was taken before I connected the filler pipe. The gas-tight lid isn't on either. There is a 50mm vent tube which goes through the boot floor and has the filler pipe, feed pipe and cable for the sender unit running through it. The threaded bar for securing the spare wheel, and the bracket that holds it to the floor, has to be removed. It was held by 4 spot welds so I just drilled them out, without going right through the floor and liberally plastered the bare metal with Hammerite. The wires you can see are for my rear amp install. The rear is almost complete now. I just need to secure the filler pipe, then it's on to the front. I realised yesterday that fitting the mixer would mean moving the air filter/AFM assembly forward. Then I had a brain wave. If I got an L-shaped ICV and the elbow to suit, the problem doesn't arise. So I've got the necessary coming courtesy of Dark Sounds off the 'Zone. I'll get some photo's when I do that bit so you can see what I mean. It's probably going to be a couple of weeks now before I get time to do any more.[/b] |
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Grateful thanks to Cloud for the sigpic.
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| Wayne | Mon 4 Jun 2007, 21:31:09 Post #4 |
PE30 2nd Lieutenant
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stu thats looking good mate i do have one question though as this is gas you are installing does it not have to be fitted by an engineer or can anyone do this the reason im asking is gas engineers by trade have to be corgi registered or does it come into a different bracket when fitting to a car? |
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| loopylee | Mon 4 Jun 2007, 22:06:52 Post #5 |
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PE30 Sergeant Major
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looking good fella :woohoo: lee |
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| StuBeeDoo | Tue 5 Jun 2007, 10:39:15 Post #6 |
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PE30 Senior Master Sergeant
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You have to fit the system following the LPGA guidelines. There are certain rules to follow. Once the system is fitted, it's recommended to get it "certified" by a member of LPGA. There are only two or three insurance companies who will cover a car with an un-certified install. £50 seems to be the average price for getting a DIY system certified. Hope this answers your question Wayne mate. |
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Grateful thanks to Cloud for the sigpic.
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| Mart | Tue 5 Jun 2007, 18:08:47 Post #7 |
Moderator
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Stu , if thats your tank mate, its really awsome!! :woohoo: How much does it hold ? Can you fit in the amp etc and the spare as well? Heres a credit to you Stuart, it took me ages to fathom out why you were taking a pic of the petrol flap. Then I saw the autogas logo! :fogey: :fogey: ("my eyes are old and bent", life of Brian) Looking ggreat mate! Mart. |
 Nice one Cloud | |
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| StuBeeDoo | Wed 6 Jun 2007, 05:12:34 Post #8 |
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PE30 Senior Master Sergeant
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The total capacity is 53ltr Mart. But as the system runs under pressure - ie. the tank is pressurised - it only holds a maximum 80% gas, 42+a bit ltr. No, the amp box goes on the floor in front of the tank, directly behing the rear seats. There's no room for the spare, the tank takes up all of the well. You have to carry a couple of cans of TyreWeld. |
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Grateful thanks to Cloud for the sigpic.
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| Angus | Wed 6 Jun 2007, 16:40:38 Post #9 |
PE30 Sergeant 1st Class
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That's an impressive donut there Stu - I guess it must weigh a hell of a lot? |
| I don't do optomistic, I don't do pessemistic - I just do reality | |
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| StuBeeDoo | Wed 6 Jun 2007, 17:55:42 Post #10 |
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PE30 Senior Master Sergeant
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When I was doing the research I read somewhere that a similar sized tank to mine filled to its official capacity weighs about the same as a full 12 gallon petrol tank. There's definately a lot of weight in the empty tank!! |
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Grateful thanks to Cloud for the sigpic.
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| StuBeeDoo | Sat 9 Jun 2007, 15:39:43 Post #11 |
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PE30 Senior Master Sergeant
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OK, here's the issue with fitting the mixer. It has to be fitted before the take-off for the ICV or the engine won't idle. In this pic you can see that the filter/AFM assembly would have to be moved forward to allow room for the mixer in the necessary place. The mixer is the object sitting on the AFM.  When I get the L-shape ICV and it's boot (with the mixer installed) fitted, I'll post another pic. |
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Grateful thanks to Cloud for the sigpic.
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| Angus | Sat 9 Jun 2007, 20:31:18 Post #12 |
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PE30 Sergeant 1st Class
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Hokay, What happens when the gas gets low on pressure/runs out? Do you automatically switch back to petrol or is there a slow "mix down" period? |
| I don't do optomistic, I don't do pessemistic - I just do reality | |
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| StuBeeDoo | Sun 10 Jun 2007, 14:42:03 Post #13 |
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PE30 Senior Master Sergeant
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Mine has a dash mounted changeover switch. I think there are systems available which change-over automatically (& seamlessly!). If what I remember from driving an LPG equipped van 25 years ago is still the case, if you don't change over in time the engine won't rev and slowly "dies" as the pressure drops too low. |
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Grateful thanks to Cloud for the sigpic.
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| P J | Wed 20 Jun 2007, 13:48:27 Post #14 |
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PE30 Sergeant 1st Class
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I did have as SRI Vectra Dual fuel it was fantastic while the tax on auto gas was frozen at 25p per litre but as it increased in price I found that with the increase in auto gas prices the difference in MPG was so minimal that it wasn’t really making a difference to my wallet, mine had a change over switch next to the gear stick I was a bit annoying as every now and then my misses would knock it over to petrol without realizing and I would drive for miles using up my all my petrol, I didn’t really mind but the car started up on the petrol until the engine heated up enough to use the gas so if I didn’t notice all the petrol had gone I was stranded, best off leaving it on gas setting as it changed over automatically when the tank was empty, my only advice to you is fill up your car with gas when it is cold out as you get a lot more in the tank, I had a 40ltr tank in the boot on a cold morning I could get up to 46 ltrs in when it was hot It would only take 32 due to the gas expanding Good luck with the install mate Looking good so far |
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| StuBeeDoo | Sat 23 Jun 2007, 18:53:12 Post #15 |
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PE30 Senior Master Sergeant
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UPDATE.... The gas plumbing is now done except for the pipe under the car from the tank. I need to sub-let that one. Tomorrow the electrics are getting done. I'll try to remember to get some more photo's |
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Grateful thanks to Cloud for the sigpic.
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| StuBeeDoo | Sun 24 Jun 2007, 19:49:38 Post #16 |
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PE30 Senior Master Sergeant
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Ok, so here are a few more photo's. The only space I could find for the vapouriser was right behind the nearside headlights and I've had to leave the plastic cover off. I don't know where you'd find room for the vapouriser on a car with ABS! I know Brian Moore said that his is in the way if you have to get the engine out. It has to be the opposite side of the engine bay to the exhaust. :grrr:  At the moment, the main solenoid/filter assembly is mounted on the inner wing, but it's too far from the vapouriser to be acceptable, so I'm going to move it to the air filter bracket.Here you can see why I had to change the ICV and intake boot. As I posted above, the mixer has to be in the system after the AFM, but before the ICV (or the engine won't idle). A hole has to be cut in the boot for the mixer elbow connector to go through.  I had a hell of a job finding somewhere for the ECU to go. It has to be dry, not too hot and hung vertically. I ended up cutting the carpet and hanging it off the glovebox hinge bracket. There's just about enough cable to go to the various switches/solenoids, so if I put the ECU anywhere else, I'd have had to make most of the cables longer. However, I had a stroke of luck/genius(?) with the change-over switch. The headlight adjusters in the Touring have never worked - in fact all the bits in the engine bay weren't even there when I bought the car - so I removed the switch and put the LPG switch in its place, like this.....  (need to cut a bit of black plastic to cover the holes!) I actually used the hole in the bulkhead that the headlight adjuster pipes used to go through for the wiring from the ECU to the engine bay.Tomorrow evening, I'll be running the cables from the tank to the ECU and if I have time starting to make the connections from the ECU to the switches/soleniods in the engine bay. |
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Grateful thanks to Cloud for the sigpic.
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| StuBeeDoo | Fri 29 Jun 2007, 20:53:49 Post #17 |
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PE30 Senior Master Sergeant
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Another minor update..... I've not mentioned the lambda probe yet. The OMVL Millennium closed-loop mixture control system needs to have access to a probe. If the car doesn't have one, you have to weld a boss into one of the front pipes to fit the probe into. As I can't weld, I'm getting a local gadgie to do this for me. I should have booked the job sooner, now the soonest he can do it for me is next Friday. It's going to be cutting it a bit fine as I was supposed to be going away on holiday the day before (running on gas, of course) so now we've cancelled the first two nights and I'm hoping to get the system up and running on Friday evening ready for the off on Saturday morning. I doubt I'll be able to update any further for a couple of weeks now, but hopefully when I do, I'll be able to give running impressions, an idea of consumption and running costs. |
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Grateful thanks to Cloud for the sigpic.
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| StuBeeDoo | Thu 12 Jul 2007, 12:51:51 Post #18 |
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PE30 Senior Master Sergeant
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Mini update..... It runs!! :woohoo: I've been out this morning and done about 30 miles on LPG. Only minor problem is the guage isn't working. :nono: I can't detect any difference in performance, but I've told myself not to exceed 5k rpm until I've got used to driving on LPG - don't want any backfires. I think I've got it a bit rich, when I'm back off holiday I'll get it set-up on a gas analyser. Anyone who's thought about LPG, stop thinking and do it. Anyone who's never thought about it, start thinking. I'll update again with some consumption and cost-comparison figures when I've done some miles and got the mixture right. Stuart. |
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Grateful thanks to Cloud for the sigpic.
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| StuBeeDoo | Wed 18 Jul 2007, 19:59:54 Post #19 |
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PE30 Senior Master Sergeant
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Since the last post, I've been on a 627ml round trip to North Wales. I'm still not convinced that the mixture is right, but over 625 of those miles were on LPG. :woohoo: The fuel consumption worked out at an average of 24mpg and it cost £52.07. IIRC, it works out at £8.30 per 100 miles. To do that trip for the same money but on petrol or diesel, the car would have to be returning over 52mpg. To say that I'm satisfied is an understatement. I'd say that fitting all the gear was fairly easy (and I'm well known for doing everything the hard way!). When it actually ran on LPG the first time, I couldn't believe how easy it was - just a case of getting it to idle right and then holding it at 3k rpm a couple of times and the LPG ECU did the rest. The only very small downer I have is that the range on LPG is not much more than 200 miles, which is a bit of a pain when we regularly do 300+ trips. Round here, there is still one garage selling LPG at 39.9p/ltr but most are 42.9 now. On the way back from Wales, I actually paid 46.9p (shock! horror!), but either way it's going to break my heart to ever have to put more than the bare minimum of petrol in (still needs it for cold starts and to keep the pump wet). If anyone wants to have a go at this, I'll assist all I can. It could quite easily be done over a long weekend, rather than the "hour here, couple of hours there" that I did it in - providing you have access to welding gear and know what you're doing with it and unlike me you're not too lazy to lay on your back to run the pipe from the tank to the main solenoid in the engine bay. I've estimated that at my current rate of cost saving (which may improve a bit) that my system will have paid for itself in less than 10000 miles. Sooo......... Who's next?? Angus??? |
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Grateful thanks to Cloud for the sigpic.
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| Mart | Thu 19 Jul 2007, 17:00:17 Post #20 |
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Moderator
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Nice one Stuart, so glad it all panned out alright for you. :woohoo: :woohoo: How do you find the avaliability of lpg , like do they do it at Tescos etc? Do you have to fill it yourself? How long does it normally take to fill up? Do you have control on how much lpg you can put in at once? How long do you need to run on petrol for a cold start? "Fetch the Comfy Chair" :LOL: :LOL: (thats for the oldies) I know they are in themselves "nonsence" questions, but some-folk may or may not be put off by what they find different to what is the accepted norm. To me , well I wouldnt give a flying f**k if my costs were more than halved! Although I love the idea , which has been around for years, I cant justify the cost to the milage and short trips I do. So, if anyone is thinking about it, then do it . This is before the Knob-Heads come along and ruin it! You know what I mean,the next thing you see is thats its on Morning TV and some guy is doing a "blog" about it. :LOL: I think I`ll stop now. :woohoo: Mart. |
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Nice one Cloud | |
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| jamiebbmw | Sat 28 Jul 2007, 13:21:56 Post #21 |
PE30 Corporal
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hi stu is it easy to fit as can get a gfull gas conversion kit for £50 |
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| StuBeeDoo | Sun 5 Aug 2007, 08:21:07 Post #22 |
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PE30 Senior Master Sergeant
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Jamie, I've replied by PM. Running cost update..... I've now done over 1000 miles. It's cost £89.20 and I estimate that it would have been at least £160 for petrol to cover the same mileage. I'm still only 99% happy with the LPG consumption, I think I should be able to improve it slightly. Having said that, several people who have used LPG longer than me have said that the cost of LPG consumed compared to petrol should be around 55% so it's not far off. Another thing that I've read is that LPG pumps aren't subject to such strict weights and measures legislation as petrol and diesel pumps, so you may not always be getting exactly the same amount from different pumps. Therefore, checking fuel consumption by litres in the tank isn't necessarily 100% accurate. However, I don't know how true this story is. At the end of the day, I'm still looking at the system having paid for itself within 10k miles. From that aspect it's got to be worth it. :woohoo: Oh..... I've noticed that there are several garages 'round here selling petrol at 99.9p/ltr now and it's usually one of the cheaper areas. I'm still paying 39.9p/ltr for LPG at my local. |
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Grateful thanks to Cloud for the sigpic.
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| StuBeeDoo | Wed 8 Aug 2007, 17:11:15 Post #23 |
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PE30 Senior Master Sergeant
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Mart, my apologies, I didn't answer your questions.There are several Morrisons locally doing LPG. Theirs is 41.9p/ltr. Some Asda sites do LPG and I believe some Sainsburys too. My local is an independent with a Total franchise where LPG is still 39.9p/ltr. I must have filled-up 12 times now at various places near home, around Manchester (twice), in North Wales (three times), and Glasgow and haven't yet come across a station that isn't self service. Haven't actually timed it, but probably not much longer than filling the petrol tank. Yes. No different to putting in petrol. Depends on the ambient temperature. I haven't yet needed to go more than a quarter of a mile before getting a smooth change-over. It may well be different in the winter though. There is an optional temp. sensor to fit in the vapouriser that doesn't allow the system to change over until the vapouriser reaches a set temp. (15 or 40 deg. C). I may invest in one of these at a later date, depending on how the system copes this coming winter. |
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Grateful thanks to Cloud for the sigpic.
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| Mart | Wed 8 Aug 2007, 17:56:53 Post #24 |
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Cheers for that Stuart, things have certainly advanced over the years mate. Mart. |
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Nice one Cloud | |
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| StuBeeDoo | Sat 11 Aug 2007, 19:06:09 Post #25 |
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PE30 Senior Master Sergeant
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It's now been set-up and the idle is much better. There's a possibility that it may be a bit more economical now. I have another 600+ mile trip to do next weekend, so that should tell. I'll update when I have some more figures. I've actually started driving it the same as I did before. I've been past 6k rpm several times and never had a backfire yet. According to Brian (Moore), M20's on LPG rarely backfire unless they're provoked. |
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Grateful thanks to Cloud for the sigpic.
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| Wayne | Fri 17 Aug 2007, 01:27:25 Post #26 |
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PE30 2nd Lieutenant
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well done mate glad you got it sorted and i have to say it never took you long lol so whats next on your list air con? :LOL: |
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| StuBeeDoo | Fri 16 Nov 2007, 20:09:06 Post #27 |
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PE30 Senior Master Sergeant
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Sorry I haven't updated recently.  I've now done 3750 miles on LPG at a cost of £334.33. To save you getting your calculators out, that's 8.9p/mile. So my fuel costs have pretty much halved. :woohoo: Put another way, I reckon I've saved at least £300. That's 40% of the way to the kit paying for itself in 4 months (just over 3 months if you include the time I was off-the-road/not-at-work after my operation). |
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Grateful thanks to Cloud for the sigpic.
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| StuBeeDoo | Fri 16 Nov 2007, 20:29:55 Post #28 |
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PE30 Senior Master Sergeant
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again! I forgot to add..... While I was off work, I bought and fitted a temperature probe for the vapouriser. Now the weather's getting colder, I thought it would be better to let the ECU decide when it's ready to change-over from petrol when starting in the morning, rather than me keep trying to manually change it too soon. Now that I've got it fitted, I've discovered that the ECU can be set to change-over anywhere between 15 and 40deg (not either/or as I posted above). I've set it at 20deg. On the last few frosty mornings (below 3deg) I've gone just over a mile before it changes over. I've nothing much planned for this weekend, so I may go out with the laptop and experiment with the change-over engine speed. |
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Grateful thanks to Cloud for the sigpic.
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| Mart | Sat 17 Nov 2007, 14:01:43 Post #29 |
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Moderator
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Thats pretty cheap motoring Stuart mate!! Mart. |
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Nice one Cloud | |
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| loopylee | Sun 18 Nov 2007, 01:16:07 Post #30 |
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PE30 Sergeant Major
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:woohoo: well mate it looks like that was money well spent then lee |
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